Blue Rondo” was the start of my interest, and I subsequently plundered my dad’s record collection, which included lots of classical music but also records by people like John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Pee Wee Russell, Coleman Hawkins, Benny Goodman, and Louis Armstrong. Everything I have done in music started with that experience with “Blue Rondo.” The reason, Milhaud said, that he never wrote-or cared for-twelve tone music is that in a twelve tone piece you are going nowhere in particular [harmonically], therefore you can't go anywhere. You think of Beethoven, or Stravinsky, he'd say, they are always leading you somewhere new, and for that to happen you need to move between keys. This, for Milhaud, was the basis of architecture in music. This interview took place on May 26, 2020, and was hosted and produced by Jerry Jazz Musician editor/publisher Joe Maita PC . Yes, all these years the discussion has been about the cover of Time Out, and it was always sort of there from the start.

After that all the rehearsal tapes are lost, so we don’t actually know what happened between the rehearsal and the rhythm we now know.” JJM .When Columbia issued their 50th anniversary edition of Time Out, they didn’t include any of the outtakes, but you’ve heard things other people haven’t. What did you discover in those studio outtakes that you’d like to share with us? It’s a completely different rhythmic feel,” he said. “They all really struggle with it and it never really works. [Joe] Morello, who was a miraculous drummer, can hardly play it. He keeps tripping over it and he can’t quite get it to fit into the groove. Around that same time a magazine called Jazz Review started, edited by Richard Cook, whose death from cancer in 2007 was a big loss to British journalism. At one time he wrote for Classic CD, which is when we met, and I told him I would like to write for Jazz Review, so he gave me some stories. After that it just snowballed. I started writing for The Wire, then Gramophone and newspapers. There wasn’t any great plan, it just sort of fell into my lap.One of the reasons I believe in jazz is that the oneness of man can come through the rhythm of your heart. It’s the same anyplace in the world, that heartbeat. It’s the first thing you hear when you’re born — or before you’re born — and it’s the last thing you hear.” down into his fingers, he gained ownership of them in a way unlikely had notation acted as an intermediary. During my research for the book I got in touch with Sony to see if they could locate tapes of subsequent recordings, but after several months of waiting, they responded by saying that the tapes were never returned, so we don’t know what happened between their first attempts at recording “Take Five” and to how it eventually became the version we know. We can’t know what conversations went on in between the two sessions and how or why Morello decided to drop that first rhythm and to get into the groove we know, but it was absolutely the right thing to do. PC . Yes, with limits. He loved talking, and in one instance he was remembering an album he made with Anthony Braxton when, for whatever reason, we moved into a conversation about Time Out, and I sensed immediately that this topic would be problematic simply for the reason that he couldn’t remember much about it. There was certainly more reason for him to remember it than the Dave Digs Disney sessions or any of his other recordings, but I think he had been asked about it so much that he had become as confused as anybody else where fact ended and myth began. The quartet finished the sessions in the summer of 1959 and I am sure that he hadn’t listened to any of the outtakes or any of the other material between then and 2003. He was 82 years old and being asked to remember something that had happened 50 years before. So yes, it was a strange thing to ask, and there are still unanswered questions about certain aspects of how Take Five evolved.

PC . It was used for a piece in Jazz Review, but he gave me much more material than I ever could have used in a piece like that, and I would say that I hadn’t heard at least 80 percent of the material since 2003. A Letter From the Publisher An appeal for contributions to support the ongoing publishing efforts of Jerry Jazz Musician In This Issue A Collection of Jazz Poetry — Summer, 2023 Edition In a May 26, 2020 interview, Clark discusses his book with Jerry Jazz Musician editor/publisher Joe Maita. For all the quartet had become famous for carefully executed compositions, they could also play entirely free.JJM .You used the word “assertive” in describing Dave’s defense of his decision to hire and retain Joe in the face of Paul’s demands. I found him to be assertive on many occasions. An important example was during a phase in his career that was shaped by cultural politics and the civil rights movement. For example, during a tour of the American South in the late 1950s he had to be assertive with racists in defending the right of Wright to perform with his group…

The next night, Dave came to the club unsure if Desmond or the bass player Norman Bates were going to show up, and if not, he and Morello would have to play alone. Just as Dave and Morello got to the bandstand, Desmond and Bates walked in and everything seemed fine and they played. That didn’t mean Paul was happy, and the resentment went on for months – everything Joe and Paul said to each other had to be passed between Dave because they wouldn’t talk to each other. Hopefully these quotes give an idea of the intense, well informed discussion that Philip Clark presents. Also, if you have lingering doubts abouts Dave's Jazziness, listen to the fabulous gem (imho of course!) of "Ode to a Cowboy" which is described by Philip as:While the earlier version had been “much more driving and faster” with a lopsided Latin rhythm, this had a sexy 5/4 Take Five beat which “sits in the groove”, said Clark. Layering one raw tonality against a different tonality has a complex psychoacoustic effect. Chords retain their basic identities while spawning a spectrum of notes, now forced into unlikely alliances, that blend and clash unpredictably. The brain, hopefully, grasps increasingly complex interrelationships between unrelated chords as our ears acquire a taste for a tarter and more aromatic harmonic palette. Dave told me about being on a coach with Parker, talking with him about what Darius Milhaud had taught him, and the whole concept of polytonality, and he shared thoughts with him about Stravinsky, Bartok, Ravel, Satie and Debussy. He would have an in-depth conversation like that with Parker on one night, but on the next Bird would be so out of it and unapproachable, presumably desperate for a fix. One time Parker was being sought after by the mob, seeking cash for drugs, and Dave remembered advising him not to get involved with these people. So, there was a close bond between them while they were on the road, but their friendship, for whatever reason, isn’t well documented.